'Monday Mornings' Episode Discussion Thread 1x05: "The Legend and the Fall" - Jamie Bamber News
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'Monday Mornings' Episode Discussion Thread 1x05: "The Legend and the Fall"
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I know, it's early! But both asta77 and myself are slammed again today, so I figured I'd get the discussion thread post for tonight's new Monday Mornings episode up when I had an available moment. Which is now. It'll be here tonight after the episode airs, awaiting your comments!

BTW, yep that is a new photo above - NOT from tonight's episode, but rather from "Who's Sorry Now?" a couple of weeks back. TNT have occasionally been releasing new/different images on the show's website with little fanfare. Sneaky. ;)

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onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: March 5th, 2013 04:08 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I don't know if I was just in the mood for it or what but I really enjoyed this episode. I'll try to come back in the morning with more thinky thoughts but I just had to put up that initial reaction. :-D
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 5th, 2013 04:36 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I am hearing this initial reaction from multiple sources so that is a great sign. ;) Haven't seen it yet myself, will soon!
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 5th, 2013 02:33 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I had a headache and was exhausted when I watched, yet I thought it was the most enjoyable episode yet! And I felt the show *might*, at last, be finding it's voice. I definitely saw more DEK touches. Still needs more Bamber though. ;) I'll have more deep thoughts later once the brain fog of the morning lifts.
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: March 5th, 2013 03:54 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I rewatched this morning so I could have something to say beyond just that I liked it.

HH throwing softballs makes the show so much easier to watch. Of course, seeing how he deals with a doctor he cares about makes all his other meanness reprehensible.

Gato telling Leiberman how Sydney feels about him was LOL funny. Any time Gato and Dr. Napur are together things are good. I also liked him calling HH on his softball with Dr. Wayne. He's the only one who can really get away with it.

Ty & Buck confronting HH was great. Ty's speech about what HH had taught him was so very Lee-ish. Though I wish they would have shown his face when he was giving it instead of his ass. Liked him calling HH out on his lashing out at Tina.

On the Ty and Tina front I may be even more confused than before. What their relationship is or what either of them want it to be is still fairly confusing but I guess that's not unlike life. It almost felt like Ty wanted to be more of the reason why she and her husband broke up.

I liked Michelle and her swimmer patient. I loved it when she said they should call House!

And Sung forcing his team to show respect for Dr. Wayne was perfect. <3
kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 5th, 2013 07:29 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I just want to say this: if Hal Holbrook doesn't get nominated for an Emmy, I will have a serious fit. There's just something about his performance that's so unexpected and different from the whole Denny-Crane-Boston-Legal-Mad-Cow that makes you wonder, makes you take it on a level that's much more serious and I love it. That last beat, just before the credits, where he listens to his own heart? And a light just goes out of his eyes at his self-diagnosis? Yeah, that's acting.

Can I just also say that I 'ship Hooten/Gato right now? "Why is it that you're a diagnostic savant and when I do it, I'm an asshole?" (I think I'm paraphrasing) I'm loving the end of episode bar sequence and part of me wants it to be a regular thing. There's so little comedy in this show and I need that as an anchor.

I'm glad also to see Ty come out and call Hooten out on the carpet about what he did to Tina last episode re the interrogation on her marriage. It gave me a bit more likability for his character because I was wondering when the show was going to use Jamie for voice of sanity/morality strengths. Regardless, they need to do more Jamie. I'm sure I'm not the only one frustrated. Everyone else seems to be getting more stuff to chew on.

The bad: that weak Asperger's joke during date night. It made me wonder if everything I saw re Boston Legal and Jerry Espenson was some sick joke. I thought DEK was a true ally of those with autism. It wasn't funny and I didn't appreciate it since it didn't further anything in the story or for the characters. It was a throwaway bit of dialogue that frankly, reduced the characters in my eyes.

In the end, not a perfect episode (but what is?). In the end, there were less legal issues and more of the human ones, which is always a plus IMHO.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 5th, 2013 03:31 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I was SO THANKFUL we dealt with no legal issues/lawyers this week. It's probably no coincidence I found the flow and pacing of the show much improved.

The entire date, including another near fatality interrupting dinner, screamed DEK to me. While I thought a discussion about political correctness could be interesting, it did veer into some weird territory. Was he trying to say Asperger's was being over diagnosed? Or that people were looking for a diagnosis in order to explain things about themselves (which reminds me of Community creator's Dan Harmon's self-diagnosis that he uses to explain/excuse some of his personality traits)? This was another instance of what I think DEK & Co. intended came off poorly in execution.

I'm glad also to see Ty come out and call Hooten out on the carpet about what he did to Tina last episode re the interrogation on her marriage.

That was one of my favorite moments of the episode. I was getting angrier and angrier with Hooten and his unwillingness to judge his mentor as he judges EVERYONE else. So, Ty calling him on his hypocrisy was great. :) And, as you said, the moment helped to further develop Ty, who still seems to be lacking in character development.
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: March 5th, 2013 04:06 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I did like that Sydney pointed out the high intelligence connected to Asperger's. Anything that gets the message out there that autism =/= mental retardation is good to me.

more of the human ones

Yes, everyone seemed much more human in this episode. I think that's what made it better.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 03:33 am (UTC) (Link Me)
(I think I'm paraphrasing) I'm loving the end of episode bar sequence and part of me wants it to be a regular thing. There's so little comedy in this show and I need that as an anchor.

YES. This is what I was talking about last week! It would be SO great if they kept it in as a recurring coda, with different doctors floating in each week (but always Gato there, on that same stool) and more of them with each passing episode, until in the penultimate ep they were ALL there. Being themselves, not just doctors. Putting aside their personality conflicts. Letting us see who they are beyond just the scrubs. (I didn't say finale because I fully expect the finale to pull some shenanigans. ;) )

Speaking of "beyond the scrubs": HOLY SHIT, SHOW. MORE OF THIS, PLEASE...



*yelps, paws at the leather jacket on the monitor* How YOU doin', Tylerrrrr.

Edited at 2013-03-06 03:34 am (UTC)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 03:51 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I was going to be miffed if I felt like I didn't enjoy the episode with Holbrook in it. He's one of my all time favorites; I watch "All The President's Men" at least a couple times a year, he's my Deep Throat, LOL. So it made me very happy that this episode felt a lot more solid, and yes he was indeed quite brilliant. I thought the scene at lunch with Hooten where he plants some doubt in his protege (not maliciously, I don't think, but I also think he knows damn well how much Hooten looks up to him) was terrific.

See below in my reply to asta77 about Jamie having more to work with. You are not alone. (I am not being selfish fine whatever okay maybe a little selfish but FOR REAL SHOW.... ;) )
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 5th, 2013 08:13 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Enjoyed the show this week. Gato is fun to watch.

While I appreciate getting the opportunity to see jamie every week I am disappointed with his screen time so far. I guess I'm so disappointed because in the book Ty was fleshed out more than many of the other characters. I was excited after reading it because I thought the role was going to be more substantial. Hopefully in the next couple of episodes we get to learn more about dr. Wilson.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 6th, 2013 05:39 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Good Point. Ty dealing with Quinn's death was a good chunk of the book and while I don't have a problem with that not being the driving force in developing his character, we haven't seen much of anything to develop his character. Now, when Ioan shows up in two weeks, if we don't see interaction between the two I may throw things at the TV!
anteros_lmc From: anteros_lmc Date: March 6th, 2013 12:27 am (UTC) (Link Me)
My viewing was slightly compromised by out-of-synch internet fairies this week :} but I enjoyed the episode nevertheless. The plots and characterization seemed to work much better. All the characters feel like they're developing and becoming more three dimensional, except Ty :/ He's really, really trying but they're just not giving him much to go on. *sigh*

A few random thoughts...

I'm definitely with the Gato / Hooten shippers!

Hal Holbrook's performance was amazing. Having been close to someone who suffered TIAs I can say that his anger, defensiveness and obfustication were absolutely spot on.

Park still manages to convey depths of feeling with very few words. He's still one of my favourite characters.

Silverman and Sydney's relationship is really becoming quite believable. Ty and Tina's less so. It's not remotely clear what's going on there, and like asta77 I'm not really seeing the chemistry. Guess we'll just have to wait for IG to appear a couple of episodes down the line. I'm sorry, I'll get me coat... ;)

Edited at 2013-03-06 12:27 am (UTC)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 04:03 am (UTC) (Link Me)
OMG, I think I am going to deliver all my commentary in replies this week. No epically long rambles! RUM AND COKES FOR EVERYBODY. ;)

You know, with Ty now that kim_j_8472 brought up how long they might take to get back to the Quinn/Alison plot, I wonder if that is still his primary through line and they just decided to take a GIANT pause from it. Which I'm not sure was the wisest decision, right now it really does feel like they abandoned it save for Ty mentioning it as a case of Tina being there for him.

I honestly don't think it is the fault of either Jamie or Jen, both of them are quite capable of more based on the performances they are giving but the show seems to be all but insisting on keeping them from demonstrating any romantic affection at all. I GET that it is super complicated, but would it hurt to let them fumble a bit and not know what they really are feeling in any given moment, and oh I don't know, maybe kiss?! Just once! A chaste kiss, like on her temple or something, at bare minimum. At one point in that closet I thought they would and I may have mumbled "god dammit!" under my breath. ;)
kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 6th, 2013 05:37 am (UTC) (Link Me)
lol Considering Sung caught them in the closet, they should've gotten SOMETHING out of it. Sheesh.

The whole "we had a fling" thing makes me cross-eyed right now because the writers are not.dealing.with.it. I'm just supposed to believe it with no chemistry, no proof of passion. Sure, there's affection, but they could be brother/sister if you just plopped down on the couch in the middle of this episode.

It's not even Vulcan Pon Farr fighting. Give me something or I don't believe a thing that's going on.
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