"Monday Mornings" Episode 1x08 Discussion Thread: "Truth or Consequences" (As Well As Other Stuff :) - Jamie Bamber News
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"Monday Mornings" Episode 1x08 Discussion Thread: "Truth or Consequences" (As Well As Other Stuff :)


It's the long awaited Hornblower reunion on tonight's Monday Mornings! And some of us are A LITTLE BIT EXCITED ABOUT THAT. :D So, we decided to get the discussion post up sooner than usual. In case anyone felt like getting an early start on the squeeing. Or posting old photos. ;) Because TNT, in their ongoing and ever more aggravating tendency of not knowing how to properly publicize their series, provided NO promotional photos of Jamie and Ioan together (or any of Ioan at all) for tonight's episode. And while, admittedly, Hornblower was years ago and a reunion may not be of interest to the majority of the MM viewing audience, Ioan Gruffudd recently starred in his own series and is Mr. Fantastic so it's not like he's not a name. Here endeth my rant.


As you can see, Horatio and Archie are also displeased.


While we cannot yet talk about the episode itself, feel free to start speculating as to how awesome it may be. Then, once the credits have rolled, come on back and discuss the plot, character development, etc...assuming you are able to concentrate on those things. ;)

Speaking of MM and Ioan, Jennifer Finnegan did an interview with TV Line in which she discusses Ioan's guest appearance, Tina's relationship with Ty and the season finale. I'd say the interview contains very minor spoilers, if that.

And, hey, we have another awesome reunion happening today!


Archie AND Matt LIVE! Sorry, had to say it. OK, I'm not really sorry. ;)


We still have no official press release from Kudos or Sky regarding The Smoke, but TV Wise scored a lengthy off the record conversation and shared we should have one in 2-3 weeks. Since a table read occurred last week, it means the full cast is already in place.

And did you know Jamie was a songwriter? He and Kerry co-wrote the lyrics to "Say Goodbye" and part of the song can be heard at the end of the first episode of the webseries 3some by Lisa Gifford. Lucky for those of us outside the UK, we can view the series on YouTube. The entire song (which Kerry performs) will be on Kerry's website once it goes live and, of course, we'll share the news here when that happens. :)

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zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 25th, 2013 10:01 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Come through on this one, show! We'll not be too demanding, but at least ONE shot where the lads are in the frame together. Come on. You can deliver THAT, at bare minimum! *tapping foot* Also there is quite a lot to discuss in Jen's interview, but I feel like it might be best to do so after the episode airs so I can throw that into context, too. Stay tuned for further developments. ;)

I may have actually let out a wee yelp at my desk when Jamie tweeted that photo with Brad. O, COPPERS. ♥ I cannae handle all the feeeels, man.

So relieved to hear we only have to wait a couple of weeks for the cast announcement for The Smoke; I mean, it's not like I'm not dying to know RIGHT NOW. ;) But a few weeks is not bad in comparison to the long bouts of waiting we put up with for LOUK news out of ITV, for instance. (And I'm not going to speculate on any actors who are currently available who I am really fond of, either. Nope. Not gonna do it. Too many possibilities. Nooooope....)

zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 26th, 2013 04:01 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Okay, I need to watch the ep again (shortly) giving it my full attention (it was my dinnertime!) before I actually comment. A LOT to say tonight. (EDIT: Okay, since asta77 hit on most of the points I was going to, I just replied to her with my comments. Two of them. Don't start. ;) )

But given where the Ty/Tina storyline went tonight, I can't hold off on this anymore. The idea I had for a scene in the pilot that would have really helped establish them as a couple keeps needling at my grey matter so I'm just going to post it; I didn't want to foist it on anyone who may not give a shit, but hey, maybe one or two of you will think it's not half bad. *shrug* Here goes...

Basically, it would land between Tina looking on as Ty consoles Quinn's mother and Tina arriving at home. At the end of their shifts, in the hospital parking structure Tina is walking to her car and fumbling in her purse for her keys, so she's not looking at her car; once she gets there, at first she startles not knowing who it is and then realizes it's Ty leaning against her driver's side door. It's the corner of the parking structure, it's dark... no one else around, they are relatively shielded from the gossip and the suspicious glances and what not. As Tina approaches Ty, he tries to hold it together but, in this situation where it's well and truly just the two of them, he begins to sob. She chucks her purse onto the hood of the car and throws her arms around him and holds him, and eventually puts her hands on his face and plants a big ol' huge kiss on him. Not a "sexytimes are imminent" huge kiss, but definitely a romantic "I love you, I'm here for you, it's going to be OK" kiss. A kiss that lingers, at least for a beat or two until the scene ends and immediately cuts to Tina pulling into her driveway. And it's important to note that in the scene I'm suggesting, though Ty would cry, Tina would not; she'd toughen up and be Tina and be strong for him, which would allow for the moment at the refrigerator in her kitchen when Mark is not looking and she *does* allow herself to cry to remain important.

There, I'm glad I got that off my chest. ;) What would they have had to cut to squeeze that in? I don't know, but IMO between some of the lingering slo mo shots and a few other bits and bobs I'm pretty convinced they could have snipped here and there to accommodate that kind of a moment. And in retrospect... mightn't it have calibrated our emotions a little differently?

Edited at 2013-03-26 06:19 am (UTC)
elzed From: elzed Date: March 25th, 2013 10:01 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Blimey - if I lived in Chiswick (I think that's where the pub is) I'd nip down to the pub for a gander... Alas - I am miles away across London and it's absolutely freezing out there so, no chance.

And gosh, how young does he look in those pics - he;s what, 25? Bless his cotton socks.

Which reminds me, isn't he about to turn 40 like a proper grownup? (so nice when I can share a decade with a crush, for a change...)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 25th, 2013 10:05 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
He does indeed have rather a big birthday coming up...

*innocent whistle*
anteros_lmc From: anteros_lmc Date: March 25th, 2013 10:05 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
A LITTLE BIT EXCITED?? Yep, just a LEETLE bit :} Since I'm not going to be here to comment when the episode airs here's a screencap instead.

ragdoll From: ragdoll Date: March 25th, 2013 10:30 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Archie AND Matt LIVE! Sorry, had to say it. OK, I'm not really sorry. ;)

Never EVER be sorry for this! (And omg, it's true!)

Seeing the promo pix from Hornblower after all these years got my pulse racing. YOWZAH! (I'd forgotten how pretty they were together. Clearly I need to rewatch my dvds!)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 25th, 2013 10:34 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
ONE TRUE TEAM. (Points up at icon.) ^ ^ ^

I may have been hunting through the Hornblower tag on Tumblr in between posting stuff for work. It may have turned up the angry lieutenants pic above. ;) It may also have been a whole lot of pretty...
andromakhe001 From: andromakhe001 Date: March 26th, 2013 02:32 am (UTC) (Link Me)
You are darn right about TNT and their lack of promotion. I've been watching MM every week and I had NO idea Ioan was guesting! And I turned it the show on 8 minutes later, if I hadn't noticed the time, I could have missed it altogether. As it is I have no idea exactly how the girl died. But scene I saw him in he was great, as usual.

It's kind of ridiculous how excited I got. I hadn't realized how much my Hornblower fandom was still living in my bones. :) I was always an Archie girl over all and I've definitely followed Jamie's career more(he also just happens to do more the sort of things I want to watch) but still how could you not love Archie and Horatio. :)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 26th, 2013 04:16 am (UTC) (Link Me)
You are darn right about TNT and their lack of promotion. I've been watching MM every week and I had NO idea Ioan was guesting!

It's been a while since we posted about the initial announcement, so you're totally forgiven, and the fact that the teasers at the end of each episode NEVER show scenes from next week doesn't help this situation one bit. And there are still frak-ups being made on the publicity end, too; asta77 and I did not post this, though we tweeted it from the JBN account; episode stills went up for the last two eps of the season today. (Only one pic of Jamie, from the finale, which we tweeted; will add to the finale discussion thread.) Meanwhile, this was accompanied by an update on the press site mistakenly describing next week's episode "Wheels Within Wheels" as TONIGHT'S episode. I don't get it, how hard is it to get these things correct? :/ (A: Not very.)

Edited at 2013-03-26 04:17 am (UTC)
charlsie_esq From: charlsie_esq Date: March 26th, 2013 02:37 am (UTC) (Link Me)

Thinky thoughts

Ioan is HOT! Angry Jamie is HOT! I've been away for a while (I've missed you guys!) but I couldn't miss this! I wish they'd had a scene together.

So, as a lawyer, watching the deposition was infuriating; and watching the doctors say that they killed a patient to her parents was enraging and watching the ex-patient's spouse rescind the organ donation . . . I just wanted to throw my tv out of the window. I usually have patience for this kind of thing, but today was just too much.

I am currently trying to learn Portuguese and my pronunciation is really awful, so the scenes with Dr. Park warm my heart.

My love for Ving Rhames apparently has no limits. I love him more with each episode. "I believe that I threatened to hit Buck" is a wonderful line.

Ty is growing on me.

Edited at 2013-03-26 03:07 am (UTC)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 26th, 2013 04:25 am (UTC) (Link Me)

Re: Thinky thoughts

Not a lawyer, but I do work for them ;), so I, too, was going, "Noooooo" a couple of times. As I mentioned below, Mark suing Ty didn't bother me so much. Angry husband. Nuisance suit. Made for TV drama. Yadda Yadda. But no way in Hell, even if they did totally screw up and it was only a matter of how much they would have to spend to settle the forthcoming lawsuit, would a hospital or doctor EVER admit guilt. And I know, unless it's an organ donation to a family member, donors can't dictate who receives their organs. And there certainly aren't take backs!

asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 26th, 2013 04:18 am (UTC) (Link Me)
OK, I confess to audibly squeeing when Jamie walked past Ioan. :) Unfortunately, that's the only time we got to see the two together. I feared that may happen (though we did get the "Captain of the Ship Doctrine" inside joke).

While were deprived of Jamie/Ioan interaction, what a great part for Ioan! I had also feared Dr. Delaney would be little more than a glorified cameo, but it was a complex role and Ioan was terrific in it. He also looked pretty good in the scrubs. And the grey shirt/tie combo. OK, let's just say he looked GOOD. ;) But, seriously, I think he got more to do emotionally in just this one guest spot than he got all last season on Ringer and it was a joy to see. And if we are lucky enough to get a second season, I really hope Dr. Delaney can come back from LA for a consult with Ty. Michelle would certainly be happy to see him. So, just how many relationships are going on off screen at Chelsea General???

I was also thrilled Jamie had a sizable part in this weeks episode. While I thought Mark suing him was ridiculous (and question whether it would hold up in court), I could rationalize that Mark is an angry husband and way too many nuisance suits are filed nowadays. Throw in a little 'made for TV drama' and I was actually OK with the storyline.

The bigger problem is one that is impossible to rectify at this point - Ty and Tina's mess of a relationship. Not that the relationship itself is a mess, but how it was (or wasn't) depicted on screen. Last week was our first opportunity to see them as a couple and now were told they've been involved for a year. And while I can understand Ty feeling guilty for not feeling guilty earlier when he didn't consider how his actions affected Mark and Tina, his 'I want this to mean something' seemed like too much of a knee-jerk reaction. Maybe it's supposed to come off that way. But given how little we've seen of them as a couple (and his slightly scared, imho, reaction to seeing Tina with a baby last week), it's hard to judge if that's the correct interpretation or we are to believe he wants a long term relationship with her.

Putting aside the lingering Ty/Tina relationship issues, it hit me that my bigger problem is Hooten and the 311 meetings. I know it's important doctors be called on their errors, but there is a fine line between being the stern father figure and demeaning and belittling your doctors and I feel he crosses the line regularly. At this point I'm not sure Tina wouldn't have cause to sue Hooten. Unless Hooten is being set up for a fall himself, I can't fathom watching this behavior week in and week out indefinitely.

As for everyone else, loved them! Park shutting down Ty ("No Hey. No Hi."). Buck being Buck and trolling the operating room for potential organ harvesting. And it was great to see Gato in the operating room rather than teaching a life lesson.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 26th, 2013 06:05 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Unfortunately, that's the only time we got to see the two together.

And it was shot in such a way that they are just BARELY outside the frame from one another and I couldn't get one damn screencap. I may have pulled this face as a result ;) -



Ioan was absolutely FANTASTIC. And I agree, there was a terrific amount for him to do for a guest shot AND one that had two other plots to wrestle for screen time with. And I'm glad you pointed this out...

So, just how many relationships are going on off screen at Chelsea General???

Because I think this was actually one of my favorite aspects of this episode, which is the fact that you could link this directly into what Ty says in the deposition that opens the floodgates on the hospital lawsuit. Yes, it happens A LOT... with different angles, for different reasons, but because these people basically see each other all day every day it does happen with perhaps more frequency than in many other professions. Michelle and Stewart are at the beginning of what could have potentially developed into something more lasting under other circumstances. (Bummmmmmmmmmer, man. For real. SO GUTTED for you, girl. ;) )

I agree on the points about Mark being an angry husband and the nuisance lawsuits, although I do still wish that, again, there had been a bit of stronger character development up front which might have kept Mark from coming off quite so sour and snotty *all* the time. It made total sense for him to be so tonight, for sure, but it would have been nice to spin him a little differently in the beginning so that both angles of this battle might feel as though they had equal weight; as it is, though I grasp all of the unpleasant moral implications of what Ty and Tina have done, I have virtually no sympathy for Mark at this point.

Now, of course - see above for my issues-with-Ty-and-Tina's-back-story purge. ;) A year did seem like a VERY long time in light of where we have been with them so far. And in fact even though I knew that Ty was going to bottle up and refuse to give Smugface McShysterbollocks (Anthony Heald could seriously market his own brand of ham!) the satisfaction of waltzing him through their history as a couple (and Jamie was VERY good navigating Ty's roller coaster tonight), I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that dickbag lawyers be damned, I DID want to hear him spell out for us! No, really, Ty... how DID you guys meet?! Did she make the first move or did you? Want me to kick the shitheads out of the room so you can just tell *us*, because I will. ;)
I found it interesting that in Jen's interview, she made mention of how fans felt "relieved" to see them in an affectionate context last week because the first thing that popped into my head was "Girrrl, you have no idea... AND YET." Also I'm glad I went on record last week saying that Jamie's reaction shot to Tina holding the baby could be read a few different ways; while I do agree you absolutely could interpret it as Ty feeling a bit startled/nervous, I think one could also interpret it as him being startled by exactly how strong his emotions were for her in that moment. Does it strictly imply that he wants marriage and a baby, with her, SOON?... absofuckinglutely not. :) But I think he's feeling as though he does have a certain degree of affection for her that maybe he hasn't had for his previous relationships, and he is game to see where that goes. How long is long term is up in the air, but he's down for it if she is. Now.... will she be? That remains in question. And yes, I would feel much, MUCH more strongly about this if the show had not played so coy with them for the first half of the season. Once again, I am not arguing for a fundamental change to the tone of the show, but I think once you introduce a romantic relationship as a major subplot you can't really afford to have your cake and eat it on the "show is not going to focus on the doctor's personal lives" philosophy, you HAVE to cut us a little bit more slack. We won't take a mile, but you have to give us more than an inch. Maybe a yardstick. At least. ;)

Damn, I ran out of character space in my comment to your comment!...


Edited at 2013-03-26 06:13 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 27th, 2013 01:26 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Just a couple of comments because a lot has already been covered.

1. I was upset Jamie and Ioan didn't have a scene together. They have such incredible chemistry.

2. I saw the scene where Ty saw Tina as an emotional revelation not an "Oh, God, no!" reaction

3. Maybe Molina trying out for pilots is BECAUSE he is written out even if the show comes back for another season.

Diorite
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 30th, 2013 04:27 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I do wonder if MM does return for a second season that there might be changes. It's clear at this point there are things that aren't working. I'm not sure Alfred has any desire to leave nor does anyone want Hooten gone, but I feel some adjustments with his character have to be made. Hooten making a mistake and being judged himself would certainly help.
anteros_lmc From: anteros_lmc Date: March 29th, 2013 12:16 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Late to the party as usual :} Have to agree with all the comments that have gone before. The suit is so patently ridiculous that it reminds me of a 18th century criminal conversation case. I thought Ty's disbelieving reaction to the whole shenanigans was spot on though. I'm afraid I also don't buy the whole sanctity of marriage thing. They're all adults, people fall in and out of love. It's painful but it happens. Move on. But perhaps I am just cruel and heartless ;)

Delaney's sudden appearance out of nowhere was odd to say the least but I thought Ioan did really well with what he was given. It's a long time since I've seen him in anything new so it was a pleasure to see him on screen again. I was squirming with frustration at the number of times that one of Jamie's scene's cut directly to Ioan's without them ever appearing in the same frame. I couldn't help laughing at the same time though. Was that a deliberate tease or what?!

Hooten to my mind is becoming more and more unrealistic by the week and I think that's a big problem because it colours my perception of the rest of the show and interferes with my ability to believe in the other characters. I can't help feeling that the script writers need to take a step back and look objectively at the character they've created. Would it be really wicked to admit that I was half hoping that Dr Delany would run him over at the end?

Edited at 2013-03-29 10:06 pm (UTC)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 30th, 2013 03:11 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
They're all adults, people fall in and out of love. It's painful but it happens. Move on. But perhaps I am just cruel and heartless ;)

You're not. You're pragmatic. Pragmatism and romance, like partners, don't always get along but *can* coexist just fine. ;)

I have to admit, for Delaney to suddenly appear I had a moment where I thought "Hey, it's Nikki and Paolo syndrome!" (raise your hands, "Lost" viewers who know what I mean. ;) ) Though of course, plenty of those doctors who sit up high in the shadows never get any clear shots of their faces and we're only one season in so it's still somewhat easy to integrate previously-unseen characters. This also points out one of the other things I feel like the show is missing, though, which is ancillary characters; with the exception of Fran Horowitz, who I love to bits, there are no nurses or other hospital staff whose faces recur from time to time*, and that's the kind of thing that lends shows like these a real sense of community. In fact, there was a nurse character, Monique Tran, in the novel whom I was really hoping they'd carry over but they didn't. On the one hand, a little odd to complain about that given how much we've discussed how ambitious each script is in the time allotted, but I did love that character.

(*I'm not counting the attorneys, which might be considered cheating, but it's really more the hospital staff community I'm addressing. The meat and potatoes of the show. I know legal is DEK's background but really, the lawyers should be the condiments on this plate. ;) And this food metaphor just got waaaaaaaaaay out of hand...)

Edited at 2013-03-30 03:14 pm (UTC)
anteros_lmc From: anteros_lmc Date: March 30th, 2013 05:44 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
What better way to spend Good Friday than screencapping Jamie and Ioan? Full set of Truth and Consequences screencaps on photobucket here.

 photo vlcsnap-2013-03-30-15h21m44s50.png  photo vlcsnap-2013-03-30-15h02m20s204.png


Until I did the screencaps I honestly hadn't noticed how much of the episode is filmed in extreme close up!
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