Friday Forum: What Would You Change? - Jamie Bamber News
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Friday Forum: What Would You Change?
This weeks topic is inspired by last weeks topic, "Matt Devlin – Fill in the Blanks!". I'm not going to be as creative as zegeekgirl. I didn't have as much free time on my hands. ;) But she made me think, if I had it within my power, what would I change about a TV or film project Jamie was in.

Jamie Bamber - HMV Signing - Photo 1

OK, this photo has nothing to do with the post, but I felt a pretty picture was needed.

I have a one pet peeve when it comes to Jamie's work. He has a tendency to die, frequently, on screen. I'm still amazed Lee Adama survived to the end of Battlestar Galactica. Now, occasionally, a character dying is a necessity. For any actor who guest starred on Ghost Whisperer or Cold Case, the chances for their character having a long, happy life weren't good. I'm prepared for the worst. It's when a death wasn't in the book or when I find out the Forrester estate threatened A&E with ending the Hornblower series that I get irked.

Now, it would be easy for me to go on a rant regarding Archie Kennedy's end in Hornblower, but fandom is blessed with quite a lot of fic that can make us pretend certain events never happened (and that other events did ;). Which leaves me with, if I could change only one thing it would be Lord Tony Dewhurt's fate in the 1999 version of The Scarlet Pimpernel.

At this point, I'm not going into too much detail. I'm such a tease! This post is serving as lead in to Sunday's “Character of the Month” post. I'll just say, as a huge fan of the 1982 two part mini series The Scarlet Pimpernel starring Jane Seymour and Anthony Andrews (so big a fan I got it on video when video was expensive), I was very familiar with the story. While I haven't read any of Pimpernel books, I've learned the 1982 adaptation is reasonably faithful to the original story. Even the 1934 film version ended much the same way as the 1982 version. And in ALL these versions, Lord Tony Dewhurst is very much alive. The Scarlet Pimpernel is the only time I've watched any of Jamie's work and was left truly shocked - given the way he died - and more than a little pissed off. So, if I had it within my fan super powers to do, Jamie's Tony would live!

But would you all do if you could? Would you alter a character's fate? Would you pair Jamie's character romantically with a character he didn't get to share enough time with on screen? I know I still hope to write my epic Battlestar Galactica Season 4 AU in which Lee Adama and Laura Roslin finally get together as they should be. ;) Would you stop a hair and makeup travesty?

Daniel Deronda  Screencap

See. TRAVESTY. Courtesy of 'Daniel Deronda'.

Would you find a way to bring his character back? Fill in his backstory? Rewrite his history?

Be as sketchy as I was. Or be more creative than I was. Or link to fic or meta that you think did an awesome job of righting a wrong. Just spill!


19 comments or Leave a comment
leiamoody From: leiamoody Date: July 24th, 2010 03:15 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Here's a story that takes care of the Kennedy/Dewhurst dying problem in one fell swoop:
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 24th, 2010 01:00 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Awesome! I'll have to take a look at it later when I have time. I can see the potential for a crossover. Those two did look a lot alike. ;)
scifishipper From: scifishipper Date: July 24th, 2010 03:52 am (UTC) (Link Me)

I have never seen that STUNNING pic of jamie before. O_O


Edited at 2010-07-24 03:52 am (UTC)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 24th, 2010 12:59 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I'm assuming you don't mean the one from Daniel Deronda? ;)

It's from a signing he did at HMV in London when the complete series of BSG came out on DVD. I'm thinking I need to do more pic spams on the comm. :)
scifishipper From: scifishipper Date: July 24th, 2010 01:19 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Why, yes, in fact, Dani--gah! Can't even type it. LOLZ!

More picspams would ALWAYS be appreciated, especially if they yield gorgeous photos like that. *points up*
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 26th, 2010 03:38 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Picspams will be easier to accomplish once I get a new computer (hopefully very soon). I will put it on the Bamber News to do list. ;)
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 24th, 2010 07:20 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Okay this might be a longer post:
I generally don’t mind a good death scene, I think it’s got good dramatic potential and can be quite satisfying too. I didn’t mind how Archie died, because I loved the courtroom scene and the way he saved the others. I was pleased that they didn’t all get off easily, there needed to be consequences. (Although I thought Paul McGann’s character could have been a bit more appreciative). Having said that, I didn’t watch the other parts of Hornblower after Jamie left. (What’s this about threatening to discontinue the series, wat?)
Haven’t seen Scarlet Pimpernel, but I wonder why they changed it, more shocking?

In BSG I was very relieved to see Lee live in the end, I’m one of the very few who liked his ending. I love how he can go explore a new and untouched world totally free of responsibility and any other ties, he seemed so boyishly excited about it! I have to admit though when I watched season 4 I wished they had killed him off at some point instead of underusing him like that and it might have got Adama to stop his little ego trip.

In terms of romantic relationships, I wish they had let Lee and Dee just be really good friends and Dee as a sort of confidante for Lee. I also wish Kendra would have survived and been his love interest instead. I know they seemed very different but I think it could have started as a comfort thing after Kara left him and sort of evolved from that. Lee could have melted her cold heart and she wouldn’t take any bs from him ;) . (On a shallow note the actress is absolutely beautiful imo, so it would have been really hot too).

The Daniel Deronda hair is truely terrible and the fat suit was quite painful too, but I do admire Jamie for not relying on the sexy and wanting to do different things.

Btw I found some other pics from the Leuka tournament, but they’re just profil shots of him talking to someone, they’re not that interesting…
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 26th, 2010 03:51 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I'm not thrilled Archie died, but I can deal with that. Archie Kennedy, as I understand it, had two paragraphs dedicate to him in the novels. Film Archie was in five films and helped launch Jamie's career. How can I complain? And he did have a good death scene.

I haven't watched the last two films either. I probably will someday, but without the relationship between Horatio and Archie, my interest just isn't there. I've also heard that people who aren't as invested in the relationship weren't pleased with the final two films so that doesn't encourage me to pop them in the DVD player when I have free time.

I’m one of the very few who liked his ending. I love how he can go explore a new and untouched world totally free of responsibility and any other ties, he seemed so boyishly excited about it!

::tackles you::

I LOVED Lee's ending! Four years of BSG and I never saw him joyful like he was in those closing moments. Yes, he lost the people closest to him (though Adama was a toxic influence and Lee was well rid of him, in my opinion), but for the first time in his life he was free to do whatever he damn well wanted without worrying about letting people down. There was no responsibility and no guilt holding him back. I was so happy for him! And I can't understand the people who thought he had a horribly depressing end and it would have been better had he died. Although, I will agree Lee should have been better utilized in Season 4.

I think I might have been able to get on board Lee/Dee had the relationship been better developed. Their final episode was the first time I saw real romantic chemistry between the two and I think it was due in large part to Dee being there for Lee as a friend and confidant.
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 26th, 2010 10:33 am (UTC) (Link Me)
The writers (and Jamie of course) really did a good job with fleshing Archie out imo, he was a breth of fresh air in the in TV version.

Oh thank god, there's someone else, I loved how Jamie played that last scene, so happy and like a weight had been lifted off his shoulders. Yes, he was alone in terms of family, but he wasn't involved with Kara romantically anymore anyway and I was actually grateful he wasn't stuck tending to his aging and increasingly self centred father. Lee could really experience this new world and seemed genuinely happy about it, anything could happen to him after that.

"Sometimes a great notion" is probably one of the few episodes of season 4 I thought was really good. Lee and Dee really did have some romantic chemistry in it, but I wish we had seen a moment of Lee being interested and supportive of Dee instead of the other way round.
I also didn't like how they contrasted Lee/Dee to Kara/Sam, with the latter as the fun couple and the former as the duty bound couple without real affection. Lee/Dee obviously could have some chemistry but it wasn't shown on screen enough.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: July 26th, 2010 06:32 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
"Sometimes a great notion" is probably one of the few episodes of season 4 I thought was really good. Lee and Dee really did have some romantic chemistry in it, but I wish we had seen a moment of Lee being interested and supportive of Dee instead of the other way round.

I think that's part of what makes that sequence so heartbreaking and effective, though. There's a definite hint that Lee is slightly startled but very pleased with the possibility that he and Dee might be able to reconcile, the way he slightly smiles as he leaves her at her door; I think in his head, he's very much interested and longs to be supportive, perhaps in a way that he realizes he never was before. He's optimistic and content in that moment because of what she has just given him, and I think he probably looks forward to reciprocating. Which is why what happens next is so devastating. :(

I also didn't like how they contrasted Lee/Dee to Kara/Sam, with the latter as the fun couple and the former as the duty bound couple without real affection. Lee/Dee obviously could have some chemistry but it wasn't shown on screen enough.

No, it wasn't. Probably the only instance of relaxed, joyful interaction between the two that doesn't have other underpinnings is the scene in "The Woman King" in Joe's bar where they're all playing the pyramid game together and laughing, and that gets cut short when Chief makes the comment about Sagittarons that they all worry will sting Dee. (Although it really doesn't.) It's kind of a throwaway moment, though.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 27th, 2010 09:21 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Oh thank god, there's someone else

Oh,there's a few of us. I'm thinking of forming a club. ;)

Yes, Lee seemed so much lighter in that final scene. had Kara lived, or gone on existing as whatever she was, I don't think he would have been as free as with her being gone. He loved her and he'd want to be around to support her, if not be with her in the romantic sense, and Kara would have likely been mired in guilt and grief over Sam's demise.

Do not get me started on Bill Adama. I can rant about him for days. Just such a self-centered human being who made EVERYTHING about him. Even Dee's death. Lee couldn't be allowed to have the death of his wife be about his loss!

lynnb From: lynnb Date: July 24th, 2010 07:46 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Why did the Forrester estate threaten to end the series? Was it that they wanted Archie Kennedy to die? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, they were very protective of the original books, as were rabid fans of the books. They were pretty adamant that if the series went further that Lt. Bush be Hornblower's friend and confidant as he was in the books. I read the first few books, and while Forrester created a fascinating character in Hornblower, the supporting characters very thinly drawn, even Capt. Pellew. The films were greatly improved by expanding Kennedy's role. This led to some rather sprited discussions on the A&E boards when the first four movies aired - wish you could have been there ;)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 26th, 2010 04:02 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Yep, you basically got it. Archie went from being a mere mention in the books to Horatio's closest friend and confidant and the Forrester estate took issue with that because a) Horatio didn't have a close friendships like that and b) Bush was his closest confidant.

The producers loved Jamie. It's why they brought him back in 'The Duchess and the Devil' after he was supposed to sail off in that boat never to be seen again in the first film. And not only did the estate tell the producers if they wanted to continue to do films Archie had to die, but he had to die on screen and leave the audience with no doubt.
spongetrisha From: spongetrisha Date: July 25th, 2010 08:31 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
If I could change one thing with Lee I would have done something with him in Season 4. They completely sidelined him in my opinion by sending him off to the Quorum. I would have put him back into the military then at least we'd have got a storyline.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 26th, 2010 03:55 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I actually am a big fan of Lee choosing politics over the military. It was clear (to me) as far back as 'Bastille Day' that, while an excellent officer, the military was not something Lee was passionate about. I almost wish they would have made the career change for Lee sooner. He floundered in Season 3. Yet, once they made the decision to make him part of the Quorum, I don't feel they did as much with that as they could of. I mean, he was president for like a day! I would have enjoyed seeing a slow rise up the ranks and for him to actually be president for awhile.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: July 26th, 2010 04:13 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Agree 100%. This goes back to my secret wish that in fact the show had gotten a fifth season and been able to fully develop some of the interesting secondary plots that were introduced but didn't have a chance to flourish in the mad dash to Earth. It would have been great to see Lee doing what Laura had tasked him for after she came back from the baseship - i.e. while she was still nominally in charge and acting as counsel, he'd do all the heavy lifting reorganizing and driving the power structure.

ETA: I want to stress that I would NOT have wanted any more than one more season. ;) Just that it would have fleshed out these types of storylines more. We were actually just having this discussion in the car on the way home from Comic-Con, five seasons is kind of the magic number.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 27th, 2010 01:04 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Well, we know that Ron was planning on the show running five seasons, but SyFy would only renew BSG for a fourth season and not guarantee a fifth (I'd argue a fifth season was unlikely from SyFy). After the Farscape debacle (though not really SyFy's fault), I can see why Ron decided to end the series after four seasons. And I am glad we got closure and weren't left hanging, but season 4 did have to rush through some story arcs while giving others short shrift. I agree, one more season (ONE) would have been nice.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: July 26th, 2010 04:18 am (UTC) (Link Me)
This is kind of a goofy contribution, but here it is anyway. ;)

Recently while I was screwing around on the web, I came across a downloadable version of a very old Commodore 64 game called "Sid Meier's PIRATES!"; it was a proto-RPG game where you get to pick your nationality and play a buccaneer sailing around the Caribbean, plundering towns and ships, rising up the ranks of nobility, etc. I LOVED this game as a kid. Lots of fun in that old-school gaming way. Anyway, as I started playing... well let's just say I've played through the game a few times now and every single time my character is an Englishman named Kennedy. In the best case scenario so far, he's had a number of brilliant adventures, captured several colonies for the British, accumulated a ton of wealth and land, married the daughter of the governor of Port Royale, and retired from buccaneering as a Count. Count Archibald Kennedy. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? XD Now that's cathartic game playing!!
asta77 From: asta77 Date: July 27th, 2010 01:00 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Now I'm wanting to see Jamie in the new Pirates of the Caribbean film! Though, it will probably suck like the last one did. ;p
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