"Monday Mornings" Discussion: Chapters 17-24 - Jamie Bamber News — LiveJournal
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"Monday Mornings" Discussion: Chapters 17-24
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onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: April 16th, 2012 03:47 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I can't help but sympathize with Tina. Having a special needs child is so difficult. It isn't even the child who is so tough; it's all the other crap. The day care/school, the doctors and therapists, the people throwing looks when you try to go for a meal out or a trip to the mall. I think Mark and Tina represent the two most common reactions. One is to throw yourself into it but you end up sort of losing yourself and becoming depressed, the other is to try to escape. I tend toward the Mark route and my ex was more of a Tina but I can understand where she's coming from.

I see the Ty/Tina as nothing too deep. They're co-workers and friends and both attractive so why not? It isn't really a grand romance and I think that's the point of it. The doctors at that level don't really have time for a satisfying home life. None of them seem to really be able to put in even a decent showing with their families.

I do love Villanueva. He's the heart of the book and I'd imagine the show as well. His reaction with the neo-nazi was believable. Really, he is a great doctor but I get the feeling he goes with his gut a lot. He sort of did the same thing of jumping in without thinking when he confronted that guy while out with his son.

Monique is awesome. Sanford is a bit of a dumb ass. I don't feel like we have as strong a picture of him as we do of her. I really hope they make it to the screen.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: April 16th, 2012 04:37 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I can certainly imagine having a special needs child is tough and could put a strain on even a strong relationship. And if the book was conveying that was a factor in Tina and Mark's troubled marriage it would likely make me more sympathetic towards Tina. But we aren't getting any clear explanation as to why things are bad other than she doesn't want to be there. I feel they either should be sitting down and talking about their problems and see if they can work through them (and not when your child is in the room and forced to listen to mom and dad fighting) or admit it's over and move on. Other than her job is very important to her, I just don't get Tina at all.

Sanford strikes me as smart and likely a very good surgeon, but perhaps very ill at ease in social situations. I work with lawyers rather than doctors, but his misunderstanding Monique at her parents house rang true to me. I guess our backgrounds are influencing how we see the characters. ;)
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: April 16th, 2012 07:27 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I guess our backgrounds are influencing how we see the characters

I think that's the thing, SG is relying on us knowing "that type" to fill in the blanks on most of the characters rather than fleshing them out himself. If he's basing them on people he's known through the years (I think he's said that or something similar) he's halfway thinking that we've got the same background knowledge of them he does so their actions/motivations make sense. It's not the best kind of writing and it's the sort of thing that would have (hopefully) kept the book from getting published if he wasn't famous.

asta77 From: asta77 Date: April 16th, 2012 11:43 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
It's not the best kind of writing and it's the sort of thing that would have (hopefully) kept the book from getting published if he wasn't famous.

Sooo, I'm not the only to have that thought cross their mind? ;)

I agree. SG created characters based on people he knows, but doesn't seem aware that the knowledge in his head is not coming out on the page. I can't entirely fault him for the sketchiness of the characterizations. Other people read drafts before this was published and no one pointed out to him he needed more background and detail with the characters?
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: April 16th, 2012 05:00 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Definitely appreciate hearing from someone who can sympathize with the special needs child part of her back-story; definitely don't doubt that it's something that presents challenges constantly. If anything, I sort of feel like there is SO much going on with Tina, and SG is pulling her in multiple directions - which is fine - but they are all tentative tugs rather than good, hard yanks, if that makes any sense. ;) The irony of the fact that she's a doctor and yet she has difficulty being present for =a child who has specific medical needs, in and of itself, is a premise that could be explored so much more - but it kind of feels like it gets short-changed here in light of everything else. Never mind the two other kids who clearly don't have the same physical challenges, but are in a bit of an emotional minefield at the moment.
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: April 16th, 2012 07:49 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I'm guessing that what SG is thinking (and again we're having to make guesses based on our knowledge rather than him actually telling the story) is that it's a case where there aren't actual medical things to be done to "fix" her. It's more about personal care like feeding, bathing, dressing, diapering, etc and she's a neurosurgeon. But on the other hand the free clinic work she's doing isn't brain surgery either. So I guess it doesn't all make a whole lot of sense.

I'm interested in how thing will change for the tv show. I've read the whole book and there is NO WAY they can do all the stories as written. It just won't work with the serial nature of tv. Maybe (hopefully) it'll start without the affair between Ty/Tina. The pilot has a ton to do already with introducing all the characters and doing the Quinn case and the Monday meeting for that and a flashback to why Ty became a doc and I'd guess some other patient(s) in there somewhere. Hopefully they'll leave any romance for later and then it might make more sense. ?
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: April 16th, 2012 08:01 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Yeah, it doesn't sound as though there is hands-on treatment on a regular basis that Ashley needs; still, even if it's just day to day care or simply being *present*, regardless of her field of expertise, it's something you'd expect someone in Tina's line of work to be more cognizant of and participate in. Then again, you introduce an interesting angle that the book kind of doesn't specifically address (at least not yet) - has she always kept Ashley at a distance because she can't cope with something she can't "fix"? Is it actually too painful for her to come to terms with?

If I'm not mistaken from what I've heard re: the script (I haven't actually read it - if anyone can fix that egregious gap in my reading pile, you know how to get a hold of me. ;) ), the Ty/Tina affair is well underway in the pilot. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that the Quinn case would be the A-plot of the pilot, perhaps with some introduction of all the characters but most of what we get in the opening chapters of the book would then fall into place (or go off in different directions) in the first half-dozen or so episodes. And as I noted in the first week's discussion, I would not be surprised if for the sake of exploring each character's own set of problems, the show exercises the option to have Ty/Tina (I'm going to start calling them "Tee-Tee", because I amuse myself easily...) call it quits, or at least put the affair on ice for a while.
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: April 16th, 2012 09:40 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I'm going to start calling them "Tee-Tee", because I amuse myself easily

I love you. I was thinking the exact same thing and almost typed it but was afraid people would think I was twelve.

Shucks. I was really hoping they weren't going for the T/T because I just don't see it as shippable beyond "Oh, look at the pretty." Though maybe they'll make it work. I'm sure DEK has a better idea of how to sell your lead romance than SG. I hope.

Y'all really need to get your hands on the script. At least to find out which book characters show up and which don't. Not that I don't wish it upon you asap but I think the perfect time to get it would be after we're done with the book discussion and after (figers crossed) we know for sure that the show is going forward. There'll be a long lull then that will need some filling on the CG front.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: April 16th, 2012 10:24 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
WE CAN BE TWELVE TOGETHER! *clapping* ;)

Oh hon, believe me, what limited time I've had on my hands to try and track down the script (or to devote to keeping my eyes peeled for newsworthy Bamberisms, period) has been put to good use! No dice yet, though. Mostly what I've gleaned about the contents has been from bloggers writing about it (there was a *very* good review that went up shortly after the pilot was green-lit - it's probably linked in a previous post...); if any other fans have it, they're not sharing. Promise, if I do find it I will send up a flare really quick-like. ;)

I was really hoping they weren't going for the T/T because I just don't see it as shippable beyond "Oh, look at the pretty." Though maybe they'll make it work.

To be honest, I don't particularly mind if T/T isn't all that shippable, so long as I feel like I know where both characters are coming from. The show's approach to the relationship may be a long game wherein circumstances drive them apart and, over time, both get their own personal lives sorted (maybe Tina's marriage definitively ends, too), and there's an aim for them to *properly* have a relationship later. Or maybe they realize they're better friends and find other people. Anything's possible.

It's not entirely impossible to derive a couple worth rooting for from less than desireable origins, either. Are you ready?... wait for it... it's my weekly ER comparison! *uncorks the champagne* ;) - anyway, Doug and Carol were arguably being the most beloved couple in the show's history, and that started out with Carol attempting suicide in the pilot, largely suspected (though never confirmed) by everyone that it was because she was distraught over the way Doug dumped her, among other reasons. And he selfishly continued to screw around for some time, and it took him quite a while get back into her good graces, let alone have her feel like she could trust him enough to try again. Shoot, all the way up to the end, she nearly raised their babies alone because George left the show first... I mean, Doug wanted to move to Seattle and she wasn't ready to leave Chicago. ;) A well-written relationship, like a real one, can handle any number of wrenches you throw at it.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: April 16th, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Correction: I just remembered Carol didn't tell Doug she was pregnant, since he was actually relocating because he basically helped an anguished mother euthanize her suffering terminal kid on the down-low. o_O Man, ER, you could really bring it sometimes.

Anyway... the gist of my point remains. ;)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: April 17th, 2012 12:40 am (UTC) (Link Me)
has she always kept Ashley at a distance because she can't cope with something she can't "fix"? Is it actually too painful for her to come to terms with?

I'm suspecting that won't be addressed in the book, though I'd love to be proved wrong. I think SG is focused on the hospital environment and cases (which makes sense given he's...Sanjay Gupta), but the issue could be addressed in the series if Tina still has three children and one of them is Ashley.
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