'Monday Mornings' Episode Discussion Thread 1x05: "The Legend and the Fall" - Jamie Bamber News
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'Monday Mornings' Episode Discussion Thread 1x05: "The Legend and the Fall"
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kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 5th, 2013 07:29 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I just want to say this: if Hal Holbrook doesn't get nominated for an Emmy, I will have a serious fit. There's just something about his performance that's so unexpected and different from the whole Denny-Crane-Boston-Legal-Mad-Cow that makes you wonder, makes you take it on a level that's much more serious and I love it. That last beat, just before the credits, where he listens to his own heart? And a light just goes out of his eyes at his self-diagnosis? Yeah, that's acting.

Can I just also say that I 'ship Hooten/Gato right now? "Why is it that you're a diagnostic savant and when I do it, I'm an asshole?" (I think I'm paraphrasing) I'm loving the end of episode bar sequence and part of me wants it to be a regular thing. There's so little comedy in this show and I need that as an anchor.

I'm glad also to see Ty come out and call Hooten out on the carpet about what he did to Tina last episode re the interrogation on her marriage. It gave me a bit more likability for his character because I was wondering when the show was going to use Jamie for voice of sanity/morality strengths. Regardless, they need to do more Jamie. I'm sure I'm not the only one frustrated. Everyone else seems to be getting more stuff to chew on.

The bad: that weak Asperger's joke during date night. It made me wonder if everything I saw re Boston Legal and Jerry Espenson was some sick joke. I thought DEK was a true ally of those with autism. It wasn't funny and I didn't appreciate it since it didn't further anything in the story or for the characters. It was a throwaway bit of dialogue that frankly, reduced the characters in my eyes.

In the end, not a perfect episode (but what is?). In the end, there were less legal issues and more of the human ones, which is always a plus IMHO.
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 5th, 2013 03:31 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I was SO THANKFUL we dealt with no legal issues/lawyers this week. It's probably no coincidence I found the flow and pacing of the show much improved.

The entire date, including another near fatality interrupting dinner, screamed DEK to me. While I thought a discussion about political correctness could be interesting, it did veer into some weird territory. Was he trying to say Asperger's was being over diagnosed? Or that people were looking for a diagnosis in order to explain things about themselves (which reminds me of Community creator's Dan Harmon's self-diagnosis that he uses to explain/excuse some of his personality traits)? This was another instance of what I think DEK & Co. intended came off poorly in execution.

I'm glad also to see Ty come out and call Hooten out on the carpet about what he did to Tina last episode re the interrogation on her marriage.

That was one of my favorite moments of the episode. I was getting angrier and angrier with Hooten and his unwillingness to judge his mentor as he judges EVERYONE else. So, Ty calling him on his hypocrisy was great. :) And, as you said, the moment helped to further develop Ty, who still seems to be lacking in character development.
kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 5th, 2013 10:30 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
the moment helped to further develop Ty, who still seems to be lacking in character development.

What happened to follow-up with Ty's phone call to Quinn's mom? It's weird to just drop a storyline like that.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 01:10 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I still have yet to add my comments on the episode (I will when I get home!!) but to address your question in as spoiler-free a way possible:

This storyline does have a considerable progression in the book. How far it will be in the show (and in what direction they take it) remains to be seen, however it is not really a spoiler (we ran the news a while back) that Tara Summers was announced as recurring some time ago. I have a feeling that constitutes more than just Alison's brief appearance in Episode 2, so I would expect her to be back at some point. I do agree, though, that dropping it entirely (besides Ty mentioning it in passing last night), only to pick it up several episodes later seems stilted. The best way I can think to make it work would be if Ty hung up on Alison the first time he called, then talked to Tina about it, she discouraged him from contact... but he will change his mind later and go through with it after all. Only that isn't what happened...

Edited at 2013-03-06 01:13 am (UTC)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 6th, 2013 05:05 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I've been wondering what happened, not only with Quinn's mom, but Ty dealing with Quinn's death. Both plot points seemed to have been dropped after the second episode. And Tara Summers was supposed to be reoccurring. If Alison and Ty suddenly are meeting for coffee later it's going to seem odd and practically out of nowhere.
kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 6th, 2013 05:40 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Guys, I don't know. It's like they missed their window and have to land in White Sands, New Mexico (bad Spacecamp reference, sorry).

It feels like it's too late to go back to that storyline because I don't see any continuation of the Ty angst we saw before. It's like he just got hit on the head and forgot about it. Those are the moments when I want to shake my TV screen.

Edited at 2013-03-06 05:41 am (UTC)
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: March 6th, 2013 02:26 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
It's so far from the event that I was talking with someone else and we were wondering if they decided against it and cut the Tara Summers parts. They'd have to really reach to reintroduce it at this point. But there was a lot of talk in interviews about how the focus wasn't on who was sleeping with whom. So if they cut back on the Ty/Tina and they pretty much cut out Ty/Alison then maybe that's why we've been so Ty lite.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 03:45 am (UTC) (Link Me)
And, as you said, the moment helped to further develop Ty, who still seems to be lacking in character development.

Not exaggerating, I leaned forward with a big shit-eating grin on my face during that scene. Not just because Hooten needed to have it spelled out for him (preferably by someone other than Buck, who he clearly finds all too easy to write off as a busybody)... but because Jamie finally had a really meaty bit of script to chew on, and he was SO fucking good in that moment! Look, I get it, it is an ensemble... there were plenty of episodes in BSG where Lee didn't have much to do, either. But this early on, I do agree that they could stand to dig a lot deeper with Ty. As you noted before (which I agree with), we should have gotten to know him a little better before the Quinn calamity hit. I so wish he had been the primary focus of the pilot, and that we had fewer plot strands to juggle every week. *sigh*

But I DID LIKE THIS EPISODE. Much much better than last week. :)

Edited at 2013-03-06 03:45 am (UTC)
onlyariana From: onlyariana Date: March 5th, 2013 04:06 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
I did like that Sydney pointed out the high intelligence connected to Asperger's. Anything that gets the message out there that autism =/= mental retardation is good to me.

more of the human ones

Yes, everyone seemed much more human in this episode. I think that's what made it better.
kim_j_8472 From: kim_j_8472 Date: March 5th, 2013 04:14 pm (UTC) (Link Me)
Anything that gets the message out there that autism =/= mental retardation is good to me.

I agree. But we can still do better. You often have only one chance for a first impression and the bluntness that comes from AS causes people to jump to conclusions that my child is a bully or an asshole-in-training. The doubt behind diagnosis (or that it's over-diagnosed) does not help me or mine at all.
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 03:33 am (UTC) (Link Me)
(I think I'm paraphrasing) I'm loving the end of episode bar sequence and part of me wants it to be a regular thing. There's so little comedy in this show and I need that as an anchor.

YES. This is what I was talking about last week! It would be SO great if they kept it in as a recurring coda, with different doctors floating in each week (but always Gato there, on that same stool) and more of them with each passing episode, until in the penultimate ep they were ALL there. Being themselves, not just doctors. Putting aside their personality conflicts. Letting us see who they are beyond just the scrubs. (I didn't say finale because I fully expect the finale to pull some shenanigans. ;) )

Speaking of "beyond the scrubs": HOLY SHIT, SHOW. MORE OF THIS, PLEASE...



*yelps, paws at the leather jacket on the monitor* How YOU doin', Tylerrrrr.

Edited at 2013-03-06 03:34 am (UTC)
asta77 From: asta77 Date: March 6th, 2013 05:07 am (UTC) (Link Me)
Once filming wrapped, I hope the jacket found it's way home with Jamie. ;)
zegeekgirl From: zegeekgirl Date: March 6th, 2013 03:51 am (UTC) (Link Me)
I was going to be miffed if I felt like I didn't enjoy the episode with Holbrook in it. He's one of my all time favorites; I watch "All The President's Men" at least a couple times a year, he's my Deep Throat, LOL. So it made me very happy that this episode felt a lot more solid, and yes he was indeed quite brilliant. I thought the scene at lunch with Hooten where he plants some doubt in his protege (not maliciously, I don't think, but I also think he knows damn well how much Hooten looks up to him) was terrific.

See below in my reply to asta77 about Jamie having more to work with. You are not alone. (I am not being selfish fine whatever okay maybe a little selfish but FOR REAL SHOW.... ;) )
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